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Council runs into barrage from gun-rights activists over gun-safety measure to protect children Print E-mail
By Jo Mannies, Beacon political reporter   
Posted 6:40 pm Tue., 1.12.10

gun_thumbscx.hu.jpgWhat looked to St. Louis County Chairwoman Barbara Fraser like a simple act to protect children is seen by gun-rights activists as a challenge to their right to bear arms.

Tuesday night, after hearing several activists air such views, Fraser opted to postpone a vote on a proposed ordinance change dealing with child endangerment.

The proposal, co-sponsored by Fraser and Councilwoman Hazel Erby, adds to the county's "petty offenses code'' a new section aimed at outlawing certain activities seen as endangering children.

Those activities include:

-- "Intentionally or recklessly operating a motor vehicle under the influence of alcohol or a controlled substance...while a child is present in the vehicle."

-- Knowingly causing or permitting a child to be present where any person is unlawfully selling, manufacturing, possessing or using either a controlled substance...or drug paraphenalia;"

-- "Intentionally or recklessly committing an act of domestic assault or domestic violation of an order of protection in the visual or auditory presence of a child;"

-- "Intentionally or recklessly storing or leaving a loaded firearm or an unloaded firearm and ammunition within the reach or easy access of a child unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant safety device."

The latter provision is what brought out Fred W. Heberer of O'Fallon, who's president of the Second Amendment Coalition of Missouri. 

He was among several speakers who told the council that the proposal's wording was unclear; "who determines what's 'intentional or reckless,'' Heberer asked.

The critics also said the provision may run afoul of a state law that limits what localities can do regarding gun regulations. Heberer said that the state of Missouri has a law that bars local jurisidictions from governing gun rights, except "where a gun is discharged and where it can be carried."

One man asserted that workplaces might be safer if more workers carried concealed weapons.

Heberer said in an interview that it also should be up to the parents to determine how they will protect their children from guns. Some older children, he said, may have enough acquaintance with guns that they can be trusted to use them safely.

Heberer acknowledged that some parents may be irresponsible with guns, "but punishing others is not the answer."

After the council meeting, Fraser said she was confident the proposed ordinance complied with state laws, but she was willing to wait a week so that some of the concerns voiced by gun-rights activists be examined.

Fraser, who is running for the state Senate, said the proposed ordinance focused on a number of illegal behaviors and wasn't targeting gun owners.

In any case, she added, "I have no doubt that it will pass."

Heberer said he had no doubt that other national and regional gun-rights groups will also get involved to fight the proposal.

 

 

 

Comments  

 
#1 Bill Corley 2010-01-13 04:30
The four points (behaviors) proposed already have laws against them. They would probably be contrary to RSMO 21.750.
 
 
#2 Dale Schmid 2010-01-13 11:18
Safe storage bill will likely change a tragedy into a crime, endanger the lives of hundreds of St. Louis citizens and has almost zero chance of doing anyone any good.
Forget that Missouri Statutes ?preempts? this bill and never mind that the U.S. Supreme Court just struck down a similar law in Heller vs. D.C., huge flaws underly the thinking for this bill. Underlying assumptions is, ?No harm can possibly occur by making guns ?inoperable? because guns only do harm and nothing good? and, they lead us to believe there is a big problem. Both are wrong!
Missouri had 20 accidental firearm deaths all age groups, pop.5.8 million with 8 in the "child" age group. St. L. Co.?s avg. accidental death by gun in this group is 1.5 each year, pop. 1,160,315. Stupidity plays a more important part in the accidental death of a child than anything else and not even St. Louis County Councilmen can fix stupid! Guns save lives!
?Junk the bill and teach firearm safety in public schools.?
 
 
#3 Reese Forbes 2010-01-13 12:38
Guns do not save lives - no one was ever brought from near dead to life by a gun. Guns kill people, not the other way around - if there is no gun, there is no one killed by a gun. A home is not safe when a gun is present.
8 dead children might not make much difference to Dale Schmid or Bill Corley, but the majority of St Louis County citizens would have another opinion if gun control was brought to a vote.
 
 
#4 Nick Kasoff 2010-01-13 12:54
Quote:
the majority of St Louis County citizens would have another opinion if
gun control was brought to a vote.


Fortunately, constitutional rights are not subject to a vote. If Barb Fraser spent as much energy dealing with the crime problem in unincorporated north county as she has on this scheme to harass lawful gun owners, things would be a lot better around here.
 
 
#5 David Shane 2010-01-13 17:55
I feel like our country has become so immature. Not long ago some schools had shooting clubs. Now even having a firearm where a child can reach it is a legal offense?

And Reese, I suggest you check your facts. Children are more likely to drown in their bathtub than die from a firearm accident in the home. And guns do save the lives of those who have them, because the criminals always will. For just one example, look to Britain, where the number of violent crimes involving a handgun exploded... after Britain banned handguns.
 
 
#6 Gale Nie 2010-01-14 02:09
Reese, you are more than welcome NOT to own a gun. For the rest of us, it's none of your business. If I was your neighbor, this is the sign I'd have in my yard.

www.facebook.com/.../
 
 
#7 Reese Forbes 2010-01-14 03:57
And if you did GN, you would quickly find yourself in court. It is hateful people like you that make problems on this world.
Wrong Mr Shane. Misdirection is a lame excuse for an intelligent argument. Bathtub drownings and guns have nothing to do with each other.
Also the number of violent crimes went DOWN after hand guns were restricted in Britain
Britain = 0.353 gun deaths per 100,000 population
USA = 10.76 gun deaths per 100,000 population
Japan has the most restrictive ban on firearms, and they have the lowest death rate, and the lowest crime rate.
 
 
#8 David Shane 2010-01-14 04:05
You're doing bad statistics Reese. You can't say things like "Japan has restrictive gun laws and a low crime rate, hence banning guns reduces crime," which is what you are implying here. There are a billion different factors that affect the crime rate. You've got to do things like looking at the same nation before an after a specific piece of legislation went into effect.

There are problems with your statement on Britain too. I'll take your word for it that violent crimes did go down after handguns were banned. But what other changes occurred in Britain during that time? Did the economy improve, for example? Because I have right before me a report on a study that found that the use of handguns in crimes rose by 40% in the two years after Britain banned handguns. And if the very thing you banned is being used for criminal activity MORE often after the ban, I think it's safe to say the ban was a failure.
 
 
#9 Reese Forbes 2010-01-14 04:52
The two years after the ban would be 98 and 99 - the survey I am referring to is a 2006 study using the statistics from a 2002 country wide survey.
So I can only conclude that the gun nuts did some bad thing right after the ban, but the authorities and the peaceful citizens were able to make the ban work, as they have in many, many places in the world.
So you are the one using bad statistics - I have been studying this issue ever since I got out of the Army 30 years ago.
 
 
#10 Larry Griffin 2010-01-14 06:32
Reese - Ms. Fraser is a politician with an agenda. Attempting to promote your beliefs by comparing countries with different social and economic structures is disingenuous. Humans by nature are violent, as history shows. Those who believe they can change human behavior by controlling and/or limiting a tool,are either naive or have an agenda. Your outbursts, use of illogical words and phrases, and personal attacks and assumptions, indicate you are not a worthy proponent for Ms. Fraser. I am a native Missourian and am proud of the direction my state has taken in the area of personal responsibility for self-defense and 2nd Amendment issues.
The area Ms. Fraser entered falls under State Preemption, pure and simple, case closed. And I have been involved in this issue since I got out of the USMC 42 years ago.
 

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